Ford Ka Stuttering Under Acceleration

[Bazzer1973]

Hello all,

You have a great forum here so as a new Ford KA owner, I thought this the best community to ask for help please.

I have just bought a 2003 Ford KA 1.3 79,000 miles (Duratech engine) and it has an annoying fault.

At 10-15% throttle car pulls perfectly no issues.

At 15%+ the car stutters and jerks as if it is out of fuel or in too high a gear.

It will do this whether it is under load or at idle. I think that it is worse when the car is warm.

The previous owner has done the following last month:

1. Changed the Spark Plugs
2. Changed the HT leads
3. Changed the Coil Pack
4. Changed the Air Filter
5. Changed the Fuel Filter

(none of these were Ford parts I think)

The indy garage also ran a diagnostic which showed no fault and they cleared the ECU.

None of the above steps helped the problem.

I have run the on-board self diagnostic and receive the following fault code:

DT 412

I have looked on the interweb and it says:

412

®

Idle speed system not controlling idle properly (generally idle too low) – ISC

It appears to idle correctly? Certainly does not stutter or stall on tick over at all.

I have looked over the web and it has been suggested it could be any of the following:

Plugs/leads

Fuel Filter

MAF sensor

Dirty Throttle Body

Lambda Sensor

Idle Control Valve

Items in Bold have been fixed already but it worries me they were not using official Ford parts as I have seen many threads say that the KA is not tolerant of these. What is your experience here? Do you use aftermarket parts successfully?

Has anyone got a few ideas that I could work through to try and find the problem at all please? I cannot take this to a Ford garage right now as money is tight. The car was cheap (and sold as seen) and will get me to work and back but it would be great if this was a simple and repairable fault. I am quite mechanically minded so will happily try any fixes myself.

Over to you guys, I know you will be able to help!

Baz

[delboy]

had similar problem with my sons fiesta and turned out to be the ht leads . start off with ford or a good quality ht leads and plugs then go from there. the idle control valve can be cleaned using a good quality degreaser or wd40 will do the job and its an easy one to do do.

any more advice needed just ask

[Bazzer1973]

Thanks Martin,

So you think the new HT leads fitted by the Indy garage may not be up to the job?

I am torn as to whether to bite the bullet and just go for a Ford diagnostic, rather than replacing parts which may be functional, what do you think?

Baz

[delboy]

try the following take off the idle control valve. its easy job to do and clean it with a good spray of wd40 as the screw inside the thing gums up.

on the pulling away issue .with plugs and leads the engine will tick over fine without a load on them until you

accellerate and thats when they play up as they loose the timing spark so the engine looses power due to it. a diagnostics wont show it as its

not going to register on the ecu. just because a garage done the work does not mean it was done properly..

perhaps pop it back to the garage that done the work to have them look at the car as it should still be warrantied. or see if a friend or good neighbor has same car you can borrow the ht leads off ?? i still say clean the idle valve aswell it is a 5 miniute job

a picture of the part you will be looking for :-

https://www.google.com/search?q=ka%20idle%20speed%20contol%20valve&newwindow=1&client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&hs=6At&affdom=maxthon.com&channel=t23&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y_gdVcmZFdDSoASy7oC4CA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&gws_rd=ssl#imgrc=twxk5st9shurjM%253A%3BcbFJlC1KOyMvTM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi8.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252Fa24%252Falanwmrt%252FIdleValve.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.pistonheads.com%252FGASSING%252Ftopic.asp%253Fh%253D0%2526t%253D538181%2526mid%253D0%2526nmt%253DFiesta%252BIssues%3B800%3B599

buy on of these as thats what i use to diagnose my cars and it saves a fortune

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Universal-CAR-OBD2-EOBD-CAN-Fault-Code-Reader-Scanner-Diagnostic-scan-Tool-/400727941078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d4d3f1fd6

[Bazzer1973]

HI Delboy thanks for the advice,

I have been having a more in depth look at the engine bay today and noticed several problems:

1. In the right upper corner of the engine bay is a large disc shaped cylinder I believe to be the brake cylinder. On the back of it is a black cylindrical object which has a hose coming from it. The hose is not plugged into anything. I have looked everywhere the hose can reach and cannot see where it goes or if it has any purpose. There is nothing else attaching to this black cylinder except this hose.
2. The hose from the engine to the Air Box was disconnected and sucking unfiltered air (I have re-attached this) will test drive it to see if this cures the problem.
3. OPened up the oil filler cap. The oil is black so will change it today.
4. There is a lot of pressure in the rocker cover. If I remove the cap as it is running, there is a lot of exhaust coming from this point, the fumes are clear and there is no mayo discharge around the cap (so I think the head gasket may be ok).
5. Engine coolant reservoir is empty, will fill it up today. Car does not run hot however.

What is your opinion on the above?

[Bazzer1973]

Ok progress so far,

I changed the oil and filter

I got the battery tested and it was defective, so bought a new one and installed it.

Topped up coolant.

This has made the car more responsive but has not fixed the problem, onto the Idle Valve : )

Baz

[delboy]

i would do an oil and oil filter change as well as a air filter change and remove the spark plungs to make sure they are the correct colour. on the brake servo/cylinder the tube from memory is a breather hose so leave it alone. sounds like you may have solved the power problem by connecting the air filter hose. as i said previously never trust that the garage has done what they say they have done or replaced. i always check everything if any of my cars go into a garage as they always forget to re attatch something. make sure you use the correct antifreeze is the coolant bottle. ford are usually a purple colour. dont mix it with another colour antifreez so have a proper look . do a dup test to check for colour if not sure goto fords for the proper coolant as its worth the extra not to blow the head. keep us posted bazz

have you checked they done the fuel filter ? its located ner the nearside rear wheel just infront of it and looks like a cola can

[Bazzer1973]

Hey Delboy,

Our messages crossed there.

oil, filter, battery and coolant changed. Yes used correct coolant, kind of reddish/purple.

Did not solve the problem but seems to run a little better.

Car is still hesitating on acceleration with more than 10-15% pedal depression. Keep the pedal depressed less than this and the car will happily, steadily climb to 70+mph, so it is less speed related and more demand.

So it would be accurate to say, the more fuel I put in, the worse the problem becomes, I think.

I have booked it in to a local garage to get a scan on it. I could scan it myself but I would not be able to interpret the result, these guys are ex Ford mechanics and say, the price of the scan (£40) includes diagnosis of the cause too, plus, if I get them to do the remedial work, they refund half the cost of the scan.

As such, I think it more economical to get them to find the problem than replace any more parts that may be perfectly ok.

Will keep you updated

[delboy]

sounds good but a scan will not show up mechanical problem only electronic. the scanner link i gave you will give you a fault code & the book that comes with it tells you the problem with the particular fault code. real easy to use. i can understand what your saying about throwing money at the car. atleast you had a go as i would be doing the same . what i cannot understand is no one else on this forum has not given you any help.

the fault maybe the coil pack but you did say the last people to have the car had it diagnosed and did not show up.

i hope they sort it for you

[Bazzer1973]

Thanks Delboy,

Yes well a Ford KA is clearly not sexy enough to warrant the attention ha ha.

Car has a one month old coil pack in it, the coils give plenty of spark to the plugs. Really hope the professionals can find out what it is.

I ran the car to nearly empty and then filled it up with new fuel but that did not help unfortunately, oh well, worth a try!

Will keep you posted and will definitely post the solution IF I find it (obviously the more people who help, the quicker that may be) : )

[delboy]

my daughter had a pug that had similar problem. a diagnosis did not show any faults so we got a second had coil pack and it sorted it out. the coil pack on a pug is diffrent from the ka. piccy of the pug 206 coil pack

[Bazzer1973]

Hi Delboy,

Success!

I took the car to Kwik Fit to get a free check on the exhaust and it just so happens they were more than happy to scan it with an OBD scanner while I was there, for free!

The scanner threw up a code that suggested cylinder three was misfiring. Odd as it had new plugs/leads/coil last month but as you said, doesn't mean the garage did it right.

Went straight to Halfords and picked up Bosch plugs and a plug remover, changed out both of the middle two plugs (I knew one would be number three) and hey presto, the car runs perfectly! (ones I took out said NGK R on them and looked clean, gaps looked good too side by side with the Bosch ones?)

What have I learned?

For anyone following this thread in future, as Delboy stated early on, do not trust garages to do things right. If you are getting a fault indicative of a plug failure, check the plug even if its brand new!

Just because a plug looks ok, doesnt mean it is. There was nothing visibly wrong with the defective plugs I took out but they were definitely the problem.

Interestingly, there is lots of FREE advice out there. This forum for one, but also good old Halfords, who checked my battery for free and even loaned me the tools to remove my battery so I did not have to pay them £10 to do it for me!! Kwik Fit too, they will check your exhaust for free, even do a free emissions check (you have to book) and they have an onsite OBD scanner, fantastic service really.

Lots of sites put me off removing the plugs on my KA as they were supposed to snap. Mine came out with no issues what so ever.

Thanks Delboy for your help, I will sign off here until next time but I hope this thread helps others in the same position.

Baz

[delboy]

nice cheap fix baz. glad she is running good now.. it also strange it threw up a fault code as you said in a previous post the garage that done the original work did not get any fault code. go and buy a obd2 reader they are really easy to use. plug in it will give you the fault code and in the little book that comes with the scanner iyou find the code and net to code is the part thats the problem. the reader will work on any car from about 1994 ish

[huggytime]

Hi to ever reads this, I had this very same problem on my girlfriend's 2005 ford ka. I serviced it my self before one 1/2 year ago  as I'm quiet handy around cars and bikes etc , replacing spark plugs "ngk" ,air filter, oil filter, and oil. One year later it was due for a service when I could get around to it lol.It started to cut out on tick over at junctions , so I knew something was up and needed some love. So I did as I've always done on a standard service again replaced the spark plugs with "ngk" , fitted new  air filter, fitted new oil filter, and changed the oil. This fixed the problem about it cutting out at junctions but I had a new problem when accelerating . It would shudder or slightly miss fire on acceleration, fine on tick over or at very low acceleration.I thought it could be the coil pack or leads so I replaced the coil pack. Then the leads, still the problem was there !!!!!!! .  Then  I came across this forum with bazzers problem and thought no f**king way I  fitted in my last service the same ngk spark plugs that worked fine. Then I  fitted Bosch plugs and bingo problem solved, I've never in all my years came across this problem but please if you have this problem change plugs to Bosch first.

[Goosegoose]

Mine does exactly the same. Despite a service.  It's very disconcerting. So HT leads may be the issue then?  Back to the garage or could I replace myself?

[DaveT70]

18 minutes ago, Goosegoose said:

Mine does exactly the same. Despite a service.  It's very disconcerting. So HT leads may be the issue then?  Back to the garage or could I replace myself?

This thread is a bit old Lucy, but,

If you don't know when leads and plugs were last changed then, yes, change them.

Also, some old cars don't like E10 fuel.

If that's what you're using try E5, Tesco is best value

[UKCobra]

33 minutes ago, Goosegoose said:

Mine does exactly the same. Despite a service.  It's very disconcerting. So HT leads may be the issue then?  Back to the garage or could I replace myself?

In at least 2 reports, Bosch spark plugs were the fix. If you have replaced the spark plugs and still have the problem and they are Bosch ones, then you might want to look at the HT leads. You might want to move spark plugs around to see if a fault follows the spark plug, this is assuming you have the tooling to scan for a misfire on a particular cylinder.

[Oriskany]

#Meetoo! My 2005 Duratec had this exact problem and was fixed by swapping out the NGK plugs with Bosch ones and making sure that the ht leads were properly seated - difficult with those leads with the long metal over covers ending in springs - start by making sure that the rubber core is properly pushed forward fully into the neck of the tube. NGK plugs seem to run too cold and sooted up but Bosch, in my engine, did not. Good luck.