1slowevo9 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) (PLEASE HELP DIAGNOSE) I have searched all over the internet and tried nearly everything. I posted on other forums but not much help. Day 6 of diag. •2003 Focus SE (Auto) 156k miles. 2.0 Zetec Car suddenly does not crank. Dash lights light up in on position. Dashes (-----) on the odometer. Red theft light above radio is blinking (1x every 2seconds). Can't pull any codes does not communicate with ECU (Error). Cluster code menu DTC d262 flashing. Recently, I noticed if I move the key around hard enough in the ON position, the theft light Dims/Flashes fast/Stops, intermittently (VIDEO BELOW). Starting to think of a possible ignition switch? Any other ideas of what to do/look for other than what I have already done listed below? -Checked all fuses and swapped diodes and swapped relays in engine bay fuse box. (All fuses have continuity) -Checked all fuses and swapped relays in driver side dash fuse box. (All fuses have continuity) -Removed ECU and took apart and did not see anything unusual. -Checked multiple pins at ECU and got voltage. -Small orange/black ground wire that goes directly from battery ground (-) to the harness in the engine bay is good. -Two ground wires from the battery to the driver wheel well cleaned and secured. -Battery is in upper "Good" condition under battery load test. -Tried starting with secondary key. Recently I did an aftermarket radio install on the vehicle and I also changed the servo piston in the transmission and rebuild the valve body. Car drove absolutely amazing with no problems at all for two days. On the third day no start no crank happened. Only thing different was last day of driving, I backed up on to the driveway instead of regularly driving it in. Overnight was normal weather condition no rain etc. (I can't think of anything else). Thank you so much in advance. -Ed Edited June 27, 2023 by 1slowevo9 added vid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT70 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Sounds like either the PATS immobiliser ring on the ignition switch has gone down or the immobiliser chip in the key has gone down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney871 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 3 hours ago, DaveT70 said: Sounds like either the PATS immobiliser ring on the ignition switch has gone down or the immobiliser chip in the key has gone down I second that diagnosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 12 hours ago, 1slowevo9 said: Dash lights light up in on position. Dashes (-----) on the odometer. I'd suspect that you have an instrument cluster fault. The PATS security system is part of the IC on your model. Is the gear selector position indicator showing the vehicle is in Park ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT70 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, unofix said: I'd suspect that you have an instrument cluster fault. The PATS security system is part of the IC on your model. Is the gear selector position indicator showing the vehicle is in Park ? I'm not sure if it is on MK1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT70 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, unofix said: Is the gear selector position indicator showing the vehicle is in Park? Ah, now that is a very good point, missed that. If the selector position switch is faulty it will think it's not in Park or neutral and not start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 27, 2023 Author Share Posted June 27, 2023 8 hours ago, DaveT70 said: Sounds like either the PATS immobiliser ring on the ignition switch has gone down or the immobiliser chip in the key has gone down The immobilizer ring is suspect at this point, since i have tried both of the keys for the vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 27, 2023 Author Share Posted June 27, 2023 2 hours ago, unofix said: I'd suspect that you have an instrument cluster fault. The PATS security system is part of the IC on your model. Is the gear selector position indicator showing the vehicle is in Park ? The only gear selector that shows gears is next to the lever, and it does move along with the lever. Also tried starting in N. I heave read a few posts about the neutral safety switch on the transmission. But, i din't think that would not let you pull codes from the OBD2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 27, 2023 Author Share Posted June 27, 2023 I appreciate all the reply's. I CANNOT wait to figure out what the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, 1slowevo9 said: But, i din't think that would not let you pull codes from the OBD2. Agreed. Are you using FORScan and a good ELM327(modified) cable to try and read from the OBDII port ? So it's back to the probable instrument cluster fault as far as my thinking goes. If you give the top of the instrument cluster/dashboard a good 'thump' with your hand does anything on the display change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 27, 2023 Author Share Posted June 27, 2023 1 hour ago, unofix said: Agreed. Are you using FORScan and a good ELM327(modified) cable to try and read from the OBDII port ? So it's back to the probable instrument cluster fault as far as my thinking goes. If you give the top of the instrument cluster/dashboard a good 'thump' with your hand does anything on the display change? Multiple thumps and no difference. I am using a FOXWELL scanner and tried a few other ones, but they cannot connect to the PCM. From other forums "usually" when the scanner can't connect to the PCM and dashes (----) on the odometer, it means that the PCM is not getting power. But as I stated above, the PCM is getting power, so therefore it should be another problem or the PCM is not reacting with the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Have you used a multimeter to measure the voltage of the OBDII port ? Pin 14 is 12V positive and Pin 4 is the Ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 27, 2023 Author Share Posted June 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, unofix said: Have you used a multimeter to measure the voltage of the OBDII port ? Pin 14 is 12V positive and Pin 4 is the Ground Yes i did. Got voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 It must be some sort of PATS issue or something related to the PATS. Today when i just turned ignition ON position, PATS light was OFF, then started flashing, then blinking, then dimming all on its own without me wiggling the keys or doing anything except spectating the light and cluster, while dashes on the cluster stayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT70 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 15 hours ago, 1slowevo9 said: The only gear selector that shows gears is next to the lever, and it does move along with the lever. Also tried starting in N. I heave read a few posts about the neutral safety switch on the transmission. But, i din't think that would not let you pull codes from the OBD2. That's just a moving light attached to the shifter, there's a sensor switch in there somewhere to tell the PCM you are in P or N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT70 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 I believe FORScan does not support Focus MK1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 hour ago, DaveT70 said: That's just a moving light attached to the shifter, there's a sensor switch in there somewhere to tell the PCM you are in P or N I think that the switch assembly may be mounted on the gearbox on this Mk1 Focus. The OP did say "and I also changed the servo piston in the transmission and rebuild the valve body." https://catalogs.ssg.asia/ford/?lang=en#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%3D%3D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT70 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Yes, I would imagine, it's combined with the reverse light switch like old autos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Given the OP has recently done work on the gearbox then it could be the wiring or switch has become damaged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 4 hours ago, unofix said: Given the OP has recently done work on the gearbox then it could be the wiring or switch has become damaged. Thanks for all the replies. I will look into that. I just figured the neutral safety switch would throw a code like P084F, for example. Weird that i also drove the car for 2 days after the work was done without issues. The odly intermittent flashing/dimming/blinking PATS light is what i can't get my head around. 😡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 hours ago, 1slowevo9 said: I just figured the neutral safety switch would throw a code like P084F, for example. If the switch or the wiring is broke, then the PCM will just see that as if the vehicle gear selector is not in Park (or neutral). It will therefore not have a DTC. Using the Foxwell scanner, is it possible to view the gear selector positions ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 hour ago, unofix said: If the switch or the wiring is broke, then the PCM will just see that as if the vehicle gear selector is not in Park (or neutral). It will therefore not have a DTC. Using the Foxwell scanner, is it possible to view the gear selector positions ? I am not sure if it does that, but that would be read through through PCM from the OBD2, right? If so, the PCM isn't communicating. I can't connect to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Would this be a good time to measure the resistance across the CANBUS pins at the OBD socket in case there's a break between it and the PCM? If memory serves from reading posts in other threads there is a 120 Ohm termination resistor at each end of the CANBUS, one in the ECU and the other in the cluster. Resistance should therefore be 60 Ohms measured at the OBD socket. If it's 120 that would indicate a break. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 27 minutes ago, mjt said: Would this be a good time to measure the resistance across the CANBUS pins at the OBD socket in case there's a break between it and the PCM? If memory serves from reading posts in other threads there is a 120 Ohm termination resistor at each end of the CANBUS, one in the ECU and the other in the cluster. Resistance should therefore be 60 Ohms measured at the OBD socket. If it's 120 that would indicate a break. Agreed, a useful test to carry out and at least establish if the Canbus is complete. Remember that Ford use both a Medium Speed and a High Speed Canbus https://pinoutguide.com/CarElectronics/ford_obd_2_pinout.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1slowevo9 Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 Bad PCM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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